Tuesday, July 30, 2013

Swap Earth and Wind Temple

I keep getting ideas for an expanded 2nd Quest in the Wind Waker HD (so much potential!). After swapping out all the islands, I think another nice step would be swapping the natural order of things.

In the original I was disappointed that you couldn't play the Earth and Wind Temples out of order. Because if you look at the items alone, it should be an entirely possible. You can get the Iron Boots and the Power Bracelets at the same time. You can even get the Wind God's Aria first. What prevents you from entering the Wind Temple then is Makar, who doesn't start playing his violin behind the waterfall until after you've finished the Earth Temple. That's only the ingame mechanic that stops you from swapping the temples. You don't need the Mirror Shield or the Power Bracelets for the Wind Temple.

Well, Nintendo did it probably this way to prevent you from running around with Medli and Makar at the same time. So, they had to do it that way to prevent any conflicts or glitches of the sort. (Though other solutions that allow a variable dungeon order would have been possible, but oh well...)

But to make the 2nd Quest more interesting they could swap the order this time. They could make it so that this time Medli doesn't appear playing the harp until after you've finished the Wind Temple. They could even make it more clear by preventing you from getting the Power Bracelets without the Hookshot. They could hide the Power Bracelets in the Ghost Ship or the Overlook Island, where you need the Hookshot. And at Fire Mountain you would simply find one of the Triforce Charts.

Of course this wouldn't really make the game any harder, but it adds to the replay value and it would surprise the longtime TWW fans, who think they know the game like the back of their hand. And it shouldn't be hard to implement this.


K2L said...

I agree with everything you said. I never understood why you couldn't beat either temple in the desired order, same with the later TP and SS dungeons. I can tolerate a linear progression when there's a good in-game justification, but simple invisible, cosmic barriers that keep the later dungeons from being accessible is simply cheap and arbitrary.

K2L said...

Sorry for the doublt post, but I want to clarify that, by "cosmic barrier" I mean things like Makar not appearing in Forest Haven until after beating the Earth Temple, which makes no sense at all. Something like powering up the Comet Observatory with grand Stars in Mario Galaxy justifies why the observatories can't be accessed in any order.

Even in OOT, there are some contrived barries as well. Why won't Bongo Bongo appear in Kakariko Village before beating the Water Temple? Things like that.

TourianTourist said...

I agree with you. I'm not at all a fan of these "cosmic barriers".

I prefer sole item based progression like in the original NES Zelda games. If you have the right items for the job, nothing should stop you from entering later areas early. There shouldn't be any special events that don't happen after you've beaten dungeon XY. Sadly modern Zelda games, especially Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, are full of these "cosmic barriers".

K2L said...


K2L said...


Jeffrey Krieger said...

this is also my biggest problem with Zelda games. the "comic barriers" tend to be extremely artificial. I believe the first "cosmic barrier" was the super bomb in a link to the past where you had to clear dungeons 5 and 6. link's awakening had his situation for the first 3 dungeons (bow wow is kidnapped after tail cave, cannot be return until after bottle grotto and gets in a fight with the monkey, and tarin does not appear until after key cavern. majora's mask is perfect example of how you make a zelda game linear. you have to do the locations in order, but the bosses do not need to be defeated in the exact same order. also the song of time does allow for nonlinear progression once you get the item. four swords and four swords adventure do not use a traveling overwold map so whether there is a level order or not is irrelevant because link's stats are always reset to the minimum (i.e. no items or upgrades), whenever you begin a level and each level can be replayed. triforce heroes did allow for levels to played out of order but that was different because of the costume system. oracle series with the exception of deviating between dungeons 4 and 5 in seasons, has the animal buddies and npc's refusing to give you items unless certain conditions are met (like sahasrahla giving you the Pegasus boots). the minish cap has npc's blocking your path and the whole piccori blade issue with the link clone gimmick.